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Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka, Detroit's archbishop emeritus, is retiring today, Friday, Sept. 15, from his two positions at the helm of the government of Vatican City State. On a recent visit to Detroit, Cardinal Szoka spoke with Michigan Catholic reporter Robert Delaney about his Vatican service, his memories of the late Pope John Paul II, and his plans for the future.

Q As you look back on 16 years of service at the Vatican, what do you think will be your lasting impact there?
A My first seven years there I was the president of the Prefecture for the Economic Affairs for the Holy See. I introduced a new accounting system, which was much clearer and much more transparent.

Photo by Robert Delaney | The Michigan Catholic Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka stands in one of the interior courtyards of Sacred Heart Major Seminary. The Detroit archbishop emeritus is considered the seminary’s “second founder.”

Another accomplishment concerned the Holy See's deficit. I promoted awareness of Canon 1271 of the new Code of Canon Law of 1983, which says the bishops of the world are to contribute to the expenses of the Holy See.

The Holy See had had an operating deficit for 20 years and it took us two more years to get that straightened out. Last year, about 22 million euros were contributed by the dioceses of the world. That would be about $26 million.

After seven years in that job, the Holy Father named me to the Vatican. People always refer to "the Vatican" in a sort of all-inclusive sense, when really they mean the Holy See — which is the Holy Father with all the offices, congregations, administrations, including Vatican City State, that assist him in his worldwide ministry.

But for administrative and accounting purposes Vatican City State is a separate, autonomous entity. It's not included in the general financial statement of the Holy See.

Since October 1997, I've been president of the Government of Vatican City State, which means I have executive authority, and I'm also president of the Pontifical Commission for Vatican City State, which consists of seven cardinals and has legislative authority.

Of course, the pope is the sovereign, he's the head of Vatican City State, but when I got there the structure was not really reflecting reality. So, I began to suggest we change the fundamental law, and the Holy Father agreed and appointed a commission of canonists to study that and we now have a new fundamental law.

Also, in Vatican City State we have nine — what in English we would call — departments, and each had its own accounting system. Now, all nine have the same system. And in a short time all departments will be operating according to the same standards.

Most of the offices of the Holy See, which assist the Holy Father most directly, are outside Vatican City. They're close by, but they're in different buildings that are considered "extra-territorial," which means they're not in Vatican City, but are legally under our authority.

We don't get money (from the Holy See) to run Vatican City State. We have to raise our own money through commercial activities, and these activities include the Vatican museums, and we also have a kind of warehouse food store where they can buy in quantities. We have one of the best pharmacies in the world, and we also have six gas stations (two are within the walls), and a very nice department store in what used to be our train station.

We can't sell it to everybody, because of our treaty with Italy, but only to certain people with Vatican City rights. But that's a good number of people, because 2,600 employees of the Holy See, 1,600 in the Vatican City State, that's 4,200, and some others.

Q Plus the postage stamps.
A We make stamps and we make coins, which are mostly purchased by collectors from all over the world.

Q Working at the Vatican must have been fascinating.
A Well, it was. It has been very interesting, because there's been such a variety of things and I'm at the stage now where it's not difficult.

Like all bishops and cardinals, when I turned 75 I submitted my resignation to Pope John Paul II, but the answer I got back from him was, "For now, keep working." That was four years ago. So, I've worked under the new pope for almost a year and a half, but now he's decided to accept my resignation, which I think is correct.

Q What are your plans for retirement? How do you intend to exercise your priestly ministry in retirement?
A I will stay in the Vatican for at least another year, because I'm still on five different congregations, until I'm 80. After that, it depends; if I can find a place to live here in Detroit, I may spend about half the year here and then half or maybe a little longer than half a year there. If I do, I would be very willing to help out at a parish on weekends, say Mass or hear confessions or things like that, preach sermons. I'd be very happy to do that.

I would also like to have some time to do reading that I've not had time to do before — and, possibly, some writing. I'd like to read some more of the early Church Fathers, and also some other aspects of Church and world history.

Q What were some of your best memories from when you were archbishop of Detroit?
A I always liked Detroit and I always liked living here. I used to buy season tickets to the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed baseball games once in a while, and visited the Detroit Institute of Arts.

Photo by Robert Delaney | The Michigan Catholic Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka discusses his work for the Holy See and Vatican City State at his apartment in Sacred Heart Major Seminary.

I visited as many parishes as I could. If I had a Sunday free I would always go to one of the parishes and say one of the Masses. During Lent, every Saturday afternoon I would hear confessions.

There were times, however, when things weren't so easy. There were difficult decisions I had to make, but I made them and I think they were the right decisions. I think today most people would recognize they were the right decisions, but some of those things take a lot of courage, because you know you're going to get a lot of criticism.

Q You were very close to Pope John Paul II. Are there any special memories you have of his final days?
A Near the end he became very ill with the flu and I don't know what the technical diagnosis was, but he was having trouble breathing, so they did a tracheotomy and, as a result, it was hard for him to talk.

At times he was able to talk with that, but at other times he couldn't do it.

Before he had that tracheotomy, when he could still talk, I saw him a number of times and I had dinner with him and meetings with him and I could see he was getting weaker and was failing, but his mind was always very clear. There was never any question about that; he knew and understood everything. He was perfectly capable of performing his responsibilities, making decisions, and so on.

After he had that tracheotomy, within a month or so he died and I only saw him once and that was the day before he died and his secretary, who's now Cardinal Stanislaus Dziwisz of Krakow, called me on that Friday morning and said, "Come over to the Holy Father."

So, I went over there on Friday morning and I went right into his bedroom. He was in bed and on his back and on one side of the bed were two doctors helping him to breathe, and it was very difficult for him to breathe and he couldn't speak because of the tracheotomy.

But he knew me because when I came in his eyes were wide open, he looked right at me, and he nodded in recognition.

I went to the other side of the bed and knelt down and I kissed his hand and I held his hand and I said to him, in Polish, "Holy Father, the whole world is praying for you."

I stayed there for a few minutes before they said it was time to go. When I got up – I'm a priest and whenever I go visit sick people I give them a blessing – well, I got up and here was a sick person, so I gave him a blessing and he signed himself with the sign of the cross.

After I left I thought, gee, what did I do? I blessed the pope, when I should have asked him for a blessing. Instead, I blessed him, but he blessed himself when I did that. That was Friday morning, April 1. Then, the next night I was asked by Cardinal Dziwisz to lead the rosary in the Square of St. Peter's at 9 o'clock, because for the last few nights before that the square was full of people because they knew he was dying and they were praying for him.

So, on Saturday night I led the Rosary. I started it off and then I asked different cardinals to lead each decade, and then in between each decade there was a little choir that would sing a hymn. We had just finished the rosary and everything when we got a call on a cell phone that he had just died. I think it was 9:37, and he had just died.

I knew him very well and I have to say in my experience that he was the holiest person I've ever known in my life and it was always an inspiration for me to be in his presence, to be there with him.

Even if it was for a dinner, he liked to keep it very light-hearted, and when I'd leave I always felt inspired by him and his graciousness, his goodness, his kindness. I always left thinking I would like to be like him.

He was a real inspiration to me and he was a great pope. He was extremely intelligent, and I don't know how he did it, but he spent many hours in prayer, but also read voraciously, even to the end. And then he wrote a number of books, and all of them were documents. I don't know how he did it all, but, somehow he did it and I have no question about his holiness and his sanctity and I pray to him every day.